Comments on: Heat and Hot Water Energy Usage for My House http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/ If you cannot change the world by yourself, start by making a small change ... just 5% less is easy, and here's how. Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:27:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Tom Harrison http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-62163 Tom Harrison Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:15:11 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-62163 They live less than five miles away and clean several other houses on our street on the same day. And while I take your point, this blog is mainly about becoming aware of all changes we can make, small and large (the "Five Percent" title is intended to capture this idea). Through spending hours analyzing our energy use, we have found ways to save a pretty significant amount of energy -- energy we don't use all of the time. Through measuring, I learned lots of things. Indeed, I hadn't thought about the travel to the house factor, and through your comment, I thought about that :-) -- on the other hand, we definitely did think about referring the two women who clean our house to our neighbors because it would be more efficient for everyone. Ok, so perhaps I am being a little defensive. This is one of a few luxuries we maintain as my wife and I both work and prefer to have as much time with kids and for ourselves. They live less than five miles away and clean several other houses on our street on the same day. And while I take your point, this blog is mainly about becoming aware of all changes we can make, small and large (the “Five Percent” title is intended to capture this idea). Through spending hours analyzing our energy use, we have found ways to save a pretty significant amount of energy — energy we don’t use all of the time.

Through measuring, I learned lots of things. Indeed, I hadn’t thought about the travel to the house factor, and through your comment, I thought about that :-) — on the other hand, we definitely did think about referring the two women who clean our house to our neighbors because it would be more efficient for everyone.

Ok, so perhaps I am being a little defensive. This is one of a few luxuries we maintain as my wife and I both work and prefer to have as much time with kids and for ourselves.

]]> By: Obviate_Now http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-62159 Obviate_Now Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:40:18 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-62159 "the test was on the day that we have our house cleaned, and they run a few loads of laundry — it seems like we need to post a note telling the cleaners to use the cold water wash cycle" ummm.... your cleaners probably expend more energy traveling to your house than you could save by changing these small things. Instead of spending hours analyzing your energy use maybe you should just do your own cleaning.... “the test was on the day that we have our house cleaned, and they run a few loads of laundry — it seems like we need to post a note telling the cleaners to use the cold water wash cycle”

ummm…. your cleaners probably expend more energy traveling to your house than you could save by changing these small things.

Instead of spending hours analyzing your energy use maybe you should just do your own cleaning….

]]> By: Shower Timer: Six Bucks Once Saves That Every Month | Five Percent: Conserve a Little Energy http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-62137 Shower Timer: Six Bucks Once Saves That Every Month | Five Percent: Conserve a Little Energy Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:29:35 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-62137 [...] now that the heat’s off, spend some effort to save a little hot water. We pay about $30/month to heat water — if you heat with gas or oil, check your bills in the summer — that’s probably [...] [...] now that the heat’s off, spend some effort to save a little hot water. We pay about $30/month to heat water — if you heat with gas or oil, check your bills in the summer — that’s probably [...]

]]> By: Tom Harrison http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-61523 Tom Harrison Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:17:39 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-61523 Todd -- I had a similar question about the BTU output of the furnace (and water heater). Based on visual inspection, it looks pretty dumb to me: on and off, but I have to admit I didn't watch for a full hour it was on. The light sensor was calibrated pretty well, so might have recorded lower values if the burner stepped down its output. I saw no indication of this in the data. But this certainly blows the whole data collection method as a general solution. Actually, this makes me a little curious. I had a conversation with a guy this week who mentioned a special recording thermostat that track length of time the thermostat circuit is closed (burner on) -- essentially the same as my measuring device, albeit a lot simpler :-). If there are burners that modulate output, these devices would either need to know about that, or make some estimate of average output. The real solution here, of course, is that big appliances like furnaces and water heaters should have a built-in data interface that measures output, efficiency, and other stuff. But I'm a dreamer. A second solution (for gas, at least) would be to have an inline metering device with a data interface. I know that in larger non-residential buildings, heating and ventilation control systems are more sophisticated and some, (like a company I did a little work for last summer) make rather incredibly precise control and feedback systems that optimize the system in real-time. But in the lowly house, we're a long way away, it seems. As for the heat-vs-hot-water split, it is certainly true that in summer, it's all the hot-water. But I want daily, even hourly data, similar to my PowerCost Monitor for electricity. Again, we're a long way away. Thanks for the feedback -- it's all good stuff. Todd — I had a similar question about the BTU output of the furnace (and water heater). Based on visual inspection, it looks pretty dumb to me: on and off, but I have to admit I didn’t watch for a full hour it was on. The light sensor was calibrated pretty well, so might have recorded lower values if the burner stepped down its output. I saw no indication of this in the data. But this certainly blows the whole data collection method as a general solution.

Actually, this makes me a little curious. I had a conversation with a guy this week who mentioned a special recording thermostat that track length of time the thermostat circuit is closed (burner on) — essentially the same as my measuring device, albeit a lot simpler :-). If there are burners that modulate output, these devices would either need to know about that, or make some estimate of average output.

The real solution here, of course, is that big appliances like furnaces and water heaters should have a built-in data interface that measures output, efficiency, and other stuff. But I’m a dreamer.

A second solution (for gas, at least) would be to have an inline metering device with a data interface.

I know that in larger non-residential buildings, heating and ventilation control systems are more sophisticated and some, (like a company I did a little work for last summer) make rather incredibly precise control and feedback systems that optimize the system in real-time.

But in the lowly house, we’re a long way away, it seems.

As for the heat-vs-hot-water split, it is certainly true that in summer, it’s all the hot-water. But I want daily, even hourly data, similar to my PowerCost Monitor for electricity. Again, we’re a long way away.

Thanks for the feedback — it’s all good stuff.

]]> By: todd hoitsma http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-61515 todd hoitsma Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:52:13 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-61515 I am in the business of solar thermal (hot water) systems so I found this to be a very interesting way to track energy consumption on water heaters and boilers! One question with regard to your boiler. It is rated at 130,000 BTU per hour - but are you sure that when it fires up it always comes at the maximum rate of 130,000 BTU per hour? Some boilers modulate and may not always come at "full". Another way separate water heating (summer natural gas consumption) from space heating/water heating (winter gas consumption) is to subtract August from December gas usage. This assumes that other uses remain more or less constant - which is true to varying amounts from house to house. Have you looked at that? Keep up the good work I am in the business of solar thermal (hot water) systems so I found this to be a very interesting way to track energy consumption on water heaters and boilers!

One question with regard to your boiler. It is rated at 130,000 BTU per hour – but are you sure that when it fires up it always comes at the maximum rate of 130,000 BTU per hour? Some boilers modulate and may not always come at “full”.

Another way separate water heating (summer natural gas consumption) from space heating/water heating (winter gas consumption) is to subtract August from December gas usage. This assumes that other uses remain more or less constant – which is true to varying amounts from house to house. Have you looked at that?

Keep up the good work

]]> By: Deconstructing Energy Bills | What's on? http://fivepercent.us/2009/02/26/heat-and-hot-water-energy-usage-for-my-house/comment-page-1/#comment-61494 Deconstructing Energy Bills | What's on? Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:04:49 +0000 http://fivepercent.us/?p=729#comment-61494 [...] did the math, and I did the mechanical engineering. And I learned a few important things. During February, I [...] [...] did the math, and I did the mechanical engineering. And I learned a few important things. During February, I [...]

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